V6 306 wont start - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: V6 306 wont start

bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #1

Hi,

Just fitted a 3.0 v6 (D8) into the an x reg xsi, used adam b 's wiring diagrams, have sorted the swithed lives to relevant pins. Now my ecu being a mp 5.2 is locked and will not trip the 2 double fuel pump relays, i presume the ecu controls the earths? Now my friends v6 conversion has an unlocked mp 7.0 ecu, when fitted the relays trip. The engine tries to start but back fires out the exhaust. From what i can see it runs a wasted spark, and its almost like the ecu is opening the injectors on the exhaust stroke, is there anything i have done wiring wise to cause this or is it the difference in ecu's??

Any help is most welcome.

Dan

Posted 12th Apr 2012 at 21:06

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adam b

Seasoned Pro

Location: The Nam

Registered: 24 Jan 2006

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Post #2

So its locked, but does it have the signal from the original immobiliser? The immobiliser controls the feed to the relays and powers them up. Obviously the 406 immobiliser needs to see the 406 key chip to work.

We had issues similar to this and eventually used an unlocked ecu.

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Posted 12th Apr 2012 at 22:15

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adam b

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Post #3

One relay controls spark, the other fuel pump iirc. They don't do the same thing.

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Posted 12th Apr 2012 at 22:15

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #4

Well im just an absolute turnip, the mp 5.2 is my xsi ecu which i'd left in the boot. Have found the ecu i got with the engine and its an mp 7.0. would you look at that! Will have a go later and see how i get on!!!!

Posted 13th Apr 2012 at 08:29

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adam b

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Post #5

You tit!

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Posted 13th Apr 2012 at 23:52

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bainsey6403

Junior User

Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #6

Right tried my ecu, same symtoms as my friends one, tries to start but wont, nasty backfire from the exhaust! Have changed the plugs anyway, borrowing an oscilliscope to check if theres a signal to fire each of the 3 coils and not just one. Fuel is being injectored as the plugs are wet. Is there any chance it could be the crank sensor giving me these symtoms?

Dan

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 09:37

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #7

if fuel is going in it wont be the crank sensor at fault , no need for an oscilloscope, just pop a plug in one of the leads and crank it.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 10:43

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bainsey6403

Junior User

Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #8

I get that the fuel pump switches when ecu gets signal from crank sensor but its like the ignition timing or injection timing is wrong, what symtoms did you have when you struggled to get Adams to start? Was is trying to start or just cranking over??

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 11:09

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #9

nothing at all I think.

have you checked the timing belt?

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 11:19

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #10

Yep pulled the covers off before i swung the engine in, all looked very recent if im honest. If it wasn't for the fact the belt kit was so expensive i'd have put one on.

Bought the engine, box, shafts, pedal box etc etc off ebay, said to have 78000 miles on the clock. Was from the chap that supplies pug10ff with all there engines. Seemed genuine enough and said it ran well as he was going to put it in his 206!!

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 11:25

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #11

check the obvious, have you got power to the coilpack and the injectors?

if you have those and crank signal then it should start.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 11:43

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #12

Have a signal to all injectors and coils from the ecu, but have found one dodgy lead and one coil that isn't firing which i believe to be the 'trying to start but not' problem.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 17:16

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #13

that'll be two cylinders down then.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 18:31

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #14

quick question it'll be down 2 cylinders because of the one coil nearest belt end but the plug lead in question was the coil the oppostie end, now the ohms reading on the dodgy lead was in the millions which you could class as open circuit, would this mean im down on four cylinders and not 3 if you take the fact it runs a wasted spark?

Dan

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 18:56

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #15

umm, what?

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need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 19:12

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

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Post #16

If you've got a non-functioning coil then you'll be down to 4 cylinders.

However, if on another coil which is working, you have a non-functioning lead then you will down to 3 cylinders. Wasted spark will not matter because if the lead isn't functioning, it won't be firing the spark you require or the wasted spark...

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 19:22

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

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Post #17

naah, there's 3 coils on it stan, one goes down you lose two cylinders.

________________________________________

need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com

Bring on the Trumpets.

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 19:24

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #18

So it wont start on 3 cylinders then haha!

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 19:29

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #19

welshpug! wrote:

naah, there's 3 coils on it stan, one goes down you lose two cylinders.

That's what I said...

If you've got a coil gone bad then it will be down to 4 cylinders. If he also has a broken lead on another (good) coil then it will now be down on 3. Yes

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 14th Apr 2012 at 23:28

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bainsey6403

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Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #20

Dont suppose anyone has a decent second hand coil pack do they because there not the cheapest things to buy new!!!!

Posted 15th Apr 2012 at 14:00

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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

Location: Kent

Registered: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 21,768

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Post #21

bainsey6403 wrote:

Dont suppose anyone has a decent second hand coil pack do they because there not the cheapest things to buy new!!!!

You're best off checking eBay mate as I doubt many folk here will have a V6 coil laying around, and like you say they are not the cheapest things to buy...

________________________________________

"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love

Posted 15th Apr 2012 at 14:30

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bainsey6403

Junior User

Location: worcester

Registered: 30 Nov 2008

Posts: 92

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Post #22

Right i got the v6 running today by hard wiring the fuel pump off a battery, ran fine!

Turned it off tried restarting and back to the same problem, which is weird. Changed the fuel reg, the flywheel end as i believe there to be 2, again it fired up, had it running for half a minute, no problems, turned it off same old bloody issue wouldn't start again.

Next thing was we disconnected the battery left it for a while connected it back up and hey ho it starts runs, charges but again, you guessed it wont start again. When it runs it runs sweet no misfiring, revs up with no hesitation.

When it wont start, we put a strobe light on each plug lead, one lead has a strong consistent light,next lead is a fraction worse and the last lead is a flash every now and again. Can a coil pack give an intermitent fault as when its running it doesn't have any issues!!

Posted 19th Apr 2012 at 18:31

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