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Author Subject: Over-tightened Wheel Bolt Rant!
dragoon

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Post #26
I've always greased my wheelbolts before putting them on, never had any issues
(copper grease, ceramic grease, lithium grease; used anything i had at hand really)

always used a torque wrench to tighten them, at about +-110nm, as that is what most tyre-centre's and garages seem to use around here
(I do have the tendency to over-tighten bolts, that's why I bought a torque-wrench, I guess I'll have to turn it down the next time too Razz )

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Posted 25th Mar 2012 at 19:26
owain

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Post #27
darkstar753 wrote:
I did have to resort to the good old 5ft length of scaffold tube the other day after i had the wheels balanced


Hopefully you mean you used it to smash in the face of the guy who did up your wheels too tight? I think it's ridiculous that if a garage got caught faking your reading on an MOT emissions test they can get shut down, but they can do up your wheels dangerously tight and you'd be lucky if they loosen them again for you.

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Posted 25th Mar 2012 at 21:09
sharvey44

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Post #28
I leave a breaker bar with socket attached in the boot as the standard brace is made of cheese.

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Posted 27th Mar 2012 at 18:28
allesclar

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Post #29
copper grease ftw
Smile

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Posted 29th Mar 2012 at 16:55
beez_neez_gt

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Post #30
Copper grease would increase the torque setting, so even if you did a bolt up with the correct settings it would end up being a higher torque setting. I have had copper slip on mine and one wheel fell off, i then found two other bolts on other wheels had come loose.

No need to use copper slip if the bolts are set at the correct torque settings, the bolts wont ever seize with them bolted up with the correct settings.

As for the face of the alloy that meets the brake disk hub, well i use aluminum grease now instead of cooper slip, i apply just enough so the wheel wont stick to it via the degradation of steel meeting aluminum. Copper grease can cause electrodes/electric i believe.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 02:04
owain

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Post #31
beez_neez_gt wrote:
the bolts wont ever seize with them bolted up with the correct settings.


Hmm

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 02:06
beez_neez_gt

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Post #32
Only a few car manufacturers (ie Audi) use copper grease when they left the factory, Peugeot did not. It does help if there isn't any rust around the hubs thread holes.

In my experience i wont use it for wheel bolts again but will on normal bolts to help stop rust etc.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 02:25
daveyboy

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Post #33
So because price conscious car manufacturers opt not to do something that means there is no benefit? Peugeot skimped on a lot of things when they built cars, doesn't make it good engineering practice.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 08:32
eliotrw

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Post #34
I've just realised I probably well over tighten and also that I need a torque wrench and copperslip the learning never stops

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 11:14
owain

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Post #35
eliotrw wrote:
I've just realised I probably well over tighten and also that I need a torque wrench and copperslip the learning never stops


Yup, most people do Yes

It's not until you use a torque wrench the first time you realise how tight they really don't need to be, and all you're doing past that point is stretching the bolts and increasing the chances of them shearing, seizing or even worse all snapping when you're driving.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 11:18
mik

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Post #36
I don't like grease on the wheel/hub mounting faces as a build-up of it over time can mean the wheel is not mounted true to the hub. My Rallye had loads of copper grease on the mounting faces when I got it, and after cleaning it all off the steering wheel wobble decreased almost to nothing (the one bent wheel I have is responsible for the rest).

On the hub faces I use WD40 or something else that is thin like 3-in-1 oil, as my car lives in a garage and I don't drive it in the salt.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 11:47
daveyboy

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Post #37
mik wrote:
I don't like grease on the wheel/hub mounting faces as a build-up of it over time can mean the wheel is not mounted true to the hub. My Rallye had loads of copper grease on the mounting faces when I got it, and after cleaning it all off the steering wheel wobble decreased almost to nothing (the one bent wheel I have is responsible for the rest).

On the hub faces I use WD40 or something else that is thin like 3-in-1 oil, as my car lives in a garage and I don't drive it in the salt.



That is exactly why they say "Clean both mating surfaces before applying a light smear of anti seize compound"

I myself like to use a rotary wire brush on the hubs as it removes rust scabs/old grease/paint residue etc. and a hand wire brush on the backs of the alloys as they are relatively soft. I then apply a thin coat of copperslip with a brush to both the hub flange and the wheel. I also put a little on the threads of the bolts. No wheel wobble, no dramas with siezed bolts and never a problem with anything coming loose. Not putting anti-seize on because there is a build up is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Un-coated steel/iron forced together under pressure will seize without something in between them, especially when you introduce water into the mix.

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Posted 31st Mar 2012 at 22:58
stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #38
Always put copper grease on the threads of my wheel bolts. Always have done and have never had a problem...Smile

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 08:43
buzzbrightyear

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Post #39
I've always done the same, obviously of there's a s**t load already on the hub mating surface then clean It off and put fresh on, if it's fresh anyway, leave it on and just put a bit on the studs

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 09:40
owain

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Post #40
mik wrote:
I don't like grease on the wheel/hub mounting faces as a build-up of it over time can mean the wheel is not mounted true to the hub.


I love the idea of someone looking at a wheel hub that looks like a teenager's grease- and acne-ridden face and thinking "I'll put a bit more slip on that, then it won't seize".

As mentioned, wire brush the old s**t off, new very light layer on so it's not metal to metal and dip the threads in slip as well. Been doing it for years, never had a wheel stuck on since.

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 11:13
prism7guy

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Post #41
Here's one for you then, i've got copper slip on my wheel bolts but after a couple of sessions on track they are often loose. I torque them up to 62lbft, and have even tried higher torque to stop it happening, which helps but doesnt stop it. Suggestions?

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 13:12
owain

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Post #42
How loose? Have you checked them with a torque wrench?

One thing I've found before is people use the torque wrench, and the wheels stay at the correct torque. However then someone comes along with a breaker bar and puts an extra half turn on them, concluding that they must have been loose, when in fact they were fine and they're now over-tightened.

I'd take a torque wrench to the trackday and check with that. The forces exerted on a wheel bolt are not in the right places to undo a bolt.

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 16:35
prism7guy

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Post #43
I torque them up with a torque wrench, at Oulton last year after a few sessions i had a knocking so went into the pits and they were finger loose on one of the wheels, and noticably looser on the other wheels when going round with the torque wrench to check the others.

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 16:38
welshpug!

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Post #44
when was your torque wrench last calibrated and is it always left wound off?

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 16:38
prism7guy

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Post #45
I've never had it calibrated, and yeah i always wind it right off before i put it back in its box.
I dont think it will be too far out in terms of calibration as its not had too much abuse and was bought new.

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Posted 1st Apr 2012 at 16:41
beez_neez_gt

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Post #46
Well dont put grease on the bolts then, i bet you they wont come loose when you have taken the grease off.

I have another car that has no grease on the bolts and all is fine, i used the same torque wrench for them too.

Any ideas on where to get them calibrated ?

Also another point is that why waste time putting grease on the bolts, when most of us can either check them over by undoing them every few months, or replace brake parts etc etc. I think its overkill by using grease with no real advantage apart from the risk of them coming undone with a hard drive.

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Posted 2nd Apr 2012 at 13:02
daveyboy

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Post #47
prism7guy wrote:
Here's one for you then, i've got copper slip on my wheel bolts but after a couple of sessions on track they are often loose. I torque them up to 62lbft, and have even tried higher torque to stop it happening, which helps but doesnt stop it. Suggestions?


That's thermal expansion for you, tighten them up while hot and you'll be fine. Normal rules for road wheels don't really work for track car. My wheel bolts got hot enough to burn my hands on my track car as heat from the discs soaked into the wheel hub making it expand. Aluminium expands at a different rate to steel, do I would reccommend a quick nip up of the wheel nuts after the each session.

________________________________________

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Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 2nd Apr 2012 at 13:16
beez_neez_gt

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Post #48
Dont forget the tyre pressures go up too, nitrogen is good at stabilising the tyre pressure when track driving.

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Posted 2nd Apr 2012 at 13:20
prism7guy

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Post #49
My wheel bolts are usually too hot to touch if/when i take them out at the end of the day to swap back to road wheels, the wheels are often a bit too hot to be touching too if i dont leave the car to stand for a bit.

I've made it a habbit now to keep checking the torque after each session so all is good. Smile

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Posted 2nd Apr 2012 at 17:27

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