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displaying posts 26 to 49 of 49
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| Author | Subject: carbs and cams |
 b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #26
dav1 wrote: Only one thing for it B11 BOB a race. your 213bhp 205 against my 219bhp tb,cammed,pistons,etc 205 if yours is 213 then there should be nothing in it.  Whenever your ready and if yours is 219 Bhp then there should be nothing in it . ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
 Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 00:08
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #27
rallyeash wrote: b11 bob wrote: maddriver9 wrote: yeah i will be doing things proper, think i might just go to town and build a monster, aim for around 250bhp. you only live once. Im running carbs and have heard all the crap on here about how tb are going to give you this and yet there is no gti6 engine on here running on tbs giving 213 bhp yet ive got that on a standard engine by running carbs and thats with a dizzy adaptor If you want to save money the best option for you is twin 45 carbs but try to get hold of delroto carbs because they are better.If you got more money than sense go for tbs like the majority on here.The key to a carb set up is the Dizzy which a lot of people on here cannot get right and end up condeming carbs and going down the tb route and upseting their bank balance. Tbs will give you better fuel economy sharper throttle response over carbs but the top end power and torque will be the same as carbs.Carbs are easy to set up once they have been rolling road tuned.Tbs to set up correctly will need mapping to suit your application but most rolling road tuners never map tbs all they do is copy a another map onto your ecu from a previous gti6 that was running tbs hence why they rarely make over 200 bhp The choice is yours but to me its a no brainer My car is making 213 bhp and thats a fact as regards to rolling road being inaccurate its been to 2 rolling roads and made the same figure 213 BHP and thats with a Dizzy adaptor so before you make comments on what is a fact and what is not make sure you get your facts right your car is not making 213hp with a standard engine on carbs. FACT!! either some very inaccurate rollers, or some bullshit going on... i'd be supprised if its even making standard power with a converted dizzy. ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 00:17
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #28
it will not be a standard engine at that much power, standard engines with throttle bodies make around 185, carbs and a dizzy will be less.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 00:28
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro  Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #29
its either not a standard engine or you clearly have no ideayou really think by taking a standard ecu managed and injected modern 167 bhp engine and replace it with a 1980's ignition system and add some carbs you will gain 46hp  ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 19:09
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adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #30
welshpug! wrote: it will not be a standard engine at that much power, standard engines with throttle bodies make around 185, carbs and a dizzy will be less. I know an Mi 1.9 that made just over 200 on TBs on a standard engine. Did rev pretty high though. Minus the known 5% over read on that dyno and there you go Time for a faster car out of the box guys ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 5th Dec 2011 at 20:32
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #31
rallyeash wrote: its either not a standard engine or you clearly have no idea you really think by taking a standard ecu managed and injected modern 167 bhp engine and replace it with a 1980's ignition system and add some carbs you will gain 46hp Its not what i think but its a fact 213 bhp thats without ecu,injectors.The best bit is this is all with the condemed dizzy adaptor from the 1980's Like i said previosly tbs are only as good as the map thats put into the ecu whether the tuner that maps tbs actually maps them at all is another question.Why would a tuner spend 5 hours plus to map a ecu when he can just take a map of a previous engine he had that had a simular spec in 5 mins and then charge you 5 hours plus of mapping time.You go home happy with 200bhp and tell every man and his dog that the guy that mapped your car is a tunning god. Carbs will give you the same top end power as tbs but will take more fuel to do so due to them not being as acurate as tbs.The downside to most carb conversions is the dizzy due to it not being mappable.So the majority of forum members and their new born tuners belive that tbs is the only way forward Electronic ignition once fully understood can be set up to be just as good as Mappable ignition if you know how to.How have i got 213 bhp must be because my engine is not standard could be i dont know i bought it from a scrap yard.Then when i blew it i bought another engine and that made the same power so i guess i must have got lucky and had 2 non standard engines .Whatever the bottom line is ive got 213bhp whether you would like to put it to the test by going head to head with me whenever it suits you please let me know you only got 230 bhp plus more torque than my 1980's dizzy adaptor and carbs against your remapped tbs and fully rebuilt engine so on paper you should be ahead of me by a country mile. PS i actually like your car ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 01:46
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #32
because every engine is different, and if they have a decent batch of maps for loads of different variations they will be able to spend less time on the mapping.its the same as carbs, to do it properly you need hours on the dyno, thing is with carbs it will never be right across 100% of the rev range as they are carbs, its an inherent flaw, where bodies can be. carbs and a dizzy will make them b*tches to drive, bodies and a proper mapped ecu will b a beauty, you should try some of john read and sandy brown's 300 bhp 2.5's. bo***cks is your "standard engine" 213bhp on pump fuel. electronic ignition IS mappable ignition btw... ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 09:55
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #33
welshpug! wrote: For a person who has a lot of knowledge regarding pugs like yourself all i can say is have to say i have 213 bhp so Bo####ks to you and opinion which counts for nothing because every engine is different, and if they have a decent batch of maps for loads of different variations they will be able to spend less time on the mapping. its the same as carbs, to do it properly you need hours on the dyno, thing is with carbs it will never be right across 100% of the rev range as they are carbs, its an inherent flaw, where bodies can be. carbs and a dizzy will make them b*tches to drive, bodies and a proper mapped ecu will b a beauty, you should try some of john read and sandy brown's 300 bhp 2.5's. bo***cks is your "standard engine" 213bhp on pump fuel. electronic ignition IS mappable ignition btw... ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 11:49
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #34
What rpm limit are you running to Bob?________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 12:29
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rikky
🦔 Location: cheshire Registered: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 26,796 Status: Offline |
Post #35
i've been waiting for a thread like this to surface for a while now. i'm going to quickly scan back through the posts and see who i can victimise, rip into, ridicule and force to leave. be back momentarily________________________________________ 306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3) winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club] |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 12:35
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #36
I think you want to take the RR figure you have with a pinch (or make that a bucket load) of salt. My previous car, a 111,000 mile old Rallye made 188.7 on one set of rollers with just a decat, ITG foam filter and a Scorpion system, at the time I thought bullshit. I had this confirmed when I later fitted throttle bodies, got a decent map job done and had it tested (At Track'n'Road, a rolling road renowned for accuracy, rather than making its customers feel happy) I came away with a true figure of 179.0bhp. You are NOT making 213 on carbs on a standard engine, not even close. The fact you think you are is the most laughable bit of all.________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 13:11
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #37
oh yeah, we've been through this before  http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=132783&page=1 ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 13:23
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swiftyboi006
Seasoned Pro  Location: Maidenhead Registered: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 2,110 Status: Offline |
Post #38
You obviously have a rr printout? Post it up?________________________________________ cherry p1.....SOLD (regreting this)blaze p2.....why did i buy this SOLD Black p3  |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 13:57
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rikky
🦔 Location: cheshire Registered: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 26,796 Status: Offline |
Post #39
even funnier is he's a paid member ________________________________________ 306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3) winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club] |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 14:09
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #40
daveyboy wrote: I think you want to take the RR figure you have with a pinch (or make that a bucket load) of salt. My previous car, a 111,000 mile old Rallye made 188.7 on one set of rollers with just a decat, ITG foam filter and a Scorpion system, at the time I thought bullshit. I had this confirmed when I later fitted throttle bodies, got a decent map job done and had it tested (At Track'n'Road, a rolling road renowned for accuracy, rather than making its customers feel happy) I came away with a true figure of 179.0bhp. You are NOT making 213 on carbs on a standard engine, not even close. The fact you think you are is the most laughable bit of all. Maybe what your saying could be correct.However the most laughable bit of it all is how many members or non members are going out of their way to despute my 213 Bhp which is amusing to say the least. ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 18:50
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro  Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #41
B A C at least his sentences have got shorter even if the full stop button still doesnt work properly on his keyboard.............. ________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 19:18
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #42
yippeekayay wrote: B A C at least his sentences have got shorter even if the full stop button still doesnt work properly on his keyboard.............. I might sell my dizzy adaptor for £2000 if you intrested if your rolling shell of a 205 is valued at £2000 i may consider giving you first option on my dizzy adaptor. ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 20:11
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matty_rallye
Senior User  Location: Devizes Registered: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 966 Status: Offline |
Post #43
b11 bob wrote: daveyboy wrote: I think you want to take the RR figure you have with a pinch (or make that a bucket load) of salt. My previous car, a 111,000 mile old Rallye made 188.7 on one set of rollers with just a decat, ITG foam filter and a Scorpion system, at the time I thought bullshit. I had this confirmed when I later fitted throttle bodies, got a decent map job done and had it tested (At Track'n'Road, a rolling road renowned for accuracy, rather than making its customers feel happy) I came away with a true figure of 179.0bhp. You are NOT making 213 on carbs on a standard engine, not even close. The fact you think you are is the most laughable bit of all. Maybe what your saying could be correct.However the most laughable bit of it all is how many members or non members are going out of their way to despute my 213 Bhp which is amusing to say the least. It may have shown 213bhp on a rolling road. However my guess would be that if you put a standard engine'd gti6 on that same rolling road on the same day it would have shown almost the same figure. This is sometimes the problem with rolling roads as they can give figures that are innacurate. The reason people dispute the figure is because they KNOW that that figure on an accurate set of rollers is not possible with standard internals. On an old head build that i had built and mapped by Sandy with cams, ITB's management etc the engine produced 210bhp. Which is around the sort of figure you would expect from that build with a standard bottom end. Lots of people have had similar builds and achieved similar results. ________________________________________ 2.1 16v 306 Rallye. |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 20:19
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #44
b11 bob wrote: yippeekayay wrote: B A C at least his sentences have got shorter even if the full stop button still doesnt work properly on his keyboard.............. I might sell my dizzy adaptor for £2000 if you intrested if your rolling shell of a 205 is valued at £2000 i may consider giving you first option on my dizzy adaptor. lol.... you get a gold star for your use of the the full stop in that sentence, but loose it for a feeble attempt at a sense of humour. Note the correct use of full stops above and now. I even put in a comma. I think we need a curry in brum Bob and a drive down Broad street with b*tches and a banging bass tube in the back? ________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 20:38
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yippeekayay
Seasoned Pro Location: wilts Registered: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 4,144 Status: Offline |
Post #45
double post.________________________________________ 306 less for first time in nearly 7 years. Lets keep it that way... please refuse any offers i make to buy your 306 ( doctors letter supplied by request)Marmite and cheese sandwiches anyone??? Burns and Mcrae will be forever missed. x box "yippeekayaymofo" |
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Posted 7th Dec 2011 at 20:41
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b11 bob
Banned! Location: birmingham Registered: 19 Dec 2010 Posts: 265 Status: Offline |
Post #46
yippeekayay wrote: Sounds like a good idea let me know when you ready b11 bob wrote: yippeekayay wrote: B A C at least his sentences have got shorter even if the full stop button still doesnt work properly on his keyboard.............. I might sell my dizzy adaptor for £2000 if you intrested if your rolling shell of a 205 is valued at £2000 i may consider giving you first option on my dizzy adaptor. lol.... you get a gold star for your use of the the full stop in that sentence, but loose it for a feeble attempt at a sense of humour. Note the correct use of full stops above and now. I even put in a comma. I think we need a curry in brum Bob and a drive down Broad street with b*tches and a banging bass tube in the back? ________________________________________ 205 GTI6 235 bhp at 7400 rpm |
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Posted 8th Dec 2011 at 05:11
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #47
i won't race you on a road but happy to see you at a trackday somwhen soon...the rolling road may well of said 213 bhp but i can assure you that the figures are wrong. i look forward to seeing a RR figure with the torque and power graphs ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 8th Dec 2011 at 16:40
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maddriver9
Regular  Location: nr leek Registered: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 341 Status: Offline |
Post #48
this thread is taking off.i fancy a race too in my standard 205 gti6 ________________________________________ 178bhp 205gti6¼ mile in 14.2 |
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Posted 8th Dec 2011 at 20:03
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rallyeash
Seasoned Pro Location: Devizes Registered: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 4,424 Status: Offline |
Post #49
race for slips ________________________________________ 230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveys Project thread here309 3dr K20 Type R |
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Posted 8th Dec 2011 at 20:07
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