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Author Subject: Supercharger boost options
judley

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Location: Hartlepool

Registered: 25 Jan 2009

Posts: 228

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Post #1
I'm leaning towards supercharging my 205 GTI-6 and have a couple of questions. I know the low boost option gives circa 250hp and the high boost gives up to 400hp but is there something in between, i.e. medium boost?

If so, what sort of PSI are we talking about and are the changes in power output driven by boost pressure and injector size or are there other considerations like upgraded intercooler etc.

What sort of power/torque levels are the accepted limits for clutch/gearbox/driveshafts etc. and when do you need an LSD?

Any assistance appreciated Cool

Cheers,

George
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:27
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cjm_harris

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Registered: 04 Dec 2007

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Post #2
There is only low and high.. Low boost is standard pistons and compression. High boost is forged piston/rods etc so if you have to do that, then why not have 400bhp? Laugh

I'm sure you could still run a restrictor ring with high boost setup and have whatever you want, but I wouldnt see the point.

________________________________________

Chris
1999 China Gti6 Supercharged Devil [Fun car] >>Project Thread<<
2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout]
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:30
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spiky

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Location: Cardiff

Registered: 13 Oct 2006

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Post #3
i have thought about this, as engines are throw away items,

next year i may open up the restrictor and get wayne to re map it, and see if i can get around 300bhp

worse that can happen is a enginer fail, an thats only about 200 quids worth, so worth a punt Smile

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

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SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:33
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bigbadbowen

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Location: Winchester

Registered: 21 Nov 2003

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Post #4
spiky wrote:
i have thought about this, as engines are throw away items,

next year i may open up the restrictor and get wayne to re map it, and see if i can get around 300bhp

worse that can happen is a enginer fail, an thats only about 200 quids worth, so worth a punt Smile


Worst that can happen is a rod through the block destroying the head as well in the process ? Guess if you have a spare its worth a punt Crazy
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:36
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masekwm

Junior User

Location: Dunstable

Registered: 25 Aug 2008

Posts: 61

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Post #5
I'd go for the LSD first, get the suspension and brakes to perfect working order before considering the charger.
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:36
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Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 7,757

Status: Offline
Post #6
For a medium boost option without the forged bottom end there's no reason why you couldn't use a decompression plate and alter the restrictor ring to give the right compression and boost to map for 300 bhp.

Longevity would be the only real unknown, but if no-one gives it a go then it will never be answered...

________________________________________

Rich
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:39
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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

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Post #7
thats the thing, has any low boost had engine failure because of the boost? worth ago. couldnt the pulley on the charger be changed?

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 02:52
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spiky

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Post #8
Nah just open up the restrictor, as that what controls the boost

I don't have a spare engine, but there is plenty about Smile

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 03:04
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rallyeash

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Post #9
get your file out then!

you coming to RS day sat?

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 03:13
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judley

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Location: Hartlepool

Registered: 25 Jan 2009

Posts: 228

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Post #10
Interesting comments guys, thanks. Not really looking to go through the expense of a built engine so low(er) boost sounds the way to go. Most of the work the car does will be on track so I need some longevity.

To you guys that run a charged 205 GTI-6, do you need an LSD at that power level or can you put the power down okay on track?
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 03:42
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matty_rallye

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Post #11
You would have no hope of going around a track or putting the power down on the road without lsd.

________________________________________

2.1 16v 306 Rallye.
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 04:05
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spiky

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Location: Cardiff

Registered: 13 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,310

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Post #12
Unless you drive like miss daisy a lsd on track is a must

I will be at Combe, but not on track

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 13:50
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cjm_harris

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Registered: 04 Dec 2007

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Post #13
matty_rallye wrote:
You would have no hope of going around a track or putting the power down on the road without lsd.


This just with a SC gti6'd 205, or a 306 too? Unsure

________________________________________

Chris
1999 China Gti6 Supercharged Devil [Fun car] >>Project Thread<<
2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout]
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 13:41
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judley

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Location: Hartlepool

Registered: 25 Jan 2009

Posts: 228

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Post #14
My thinking on the LSD as well. What are the general preferences for track work then, Quaife, Kaaz or others?
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 13:45
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spiky

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Post #15
it's personal choice,

i fitted quaife as it's fit and forget

the others need maintenance

i get traction ok with my quaife, so happy with it for now, fit i find ui get issues letter on i will fitted a plated diff

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 13:51
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russbez

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Location: Inverness-Shire

Registered: 19 Dec 2005

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Post #16
spiky wrote:
it's personal choice,

i fitted quaife as it's fit and forget

the others need maintenance

i get traction ok with my quaife, so happy with it for now, fit i find ui get issues letter on i will fitted a plated diff


i have a quaife lsd i like it a lot, but im never on track days up here

lsd subject has been discussed a lot if you want to search judley Smile

________________________________________

TEAM HIGH BOOST SUPERCHARGED RALLYE

My Rallye project thread
Posted 29th Jun 2011 at 14:02
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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

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Post #17
anything needs a diff on track. even a standard 306 gti6 on road tyres imo.

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 00:20
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rich_w

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Location: Havant, Hampshire

Registered: 29 Jul 2004

Posts: 5,412

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Post #18
You can't really run any more boost than we already do ( 0.6 BAR) without de-compressing the engine - either with different pistons or a de-compression plate.

Running more boost with the 10.8:1 compression ratio will compromise reliability, and the gains you get for each extra pound of boost become less and less - this is because you have to take ignition advance out to suppress detonation.

You can run whatever power you want between 250 and 400 BHP, but you will need to de-compress the engine, and get a bespoke map rather than our standard software.

Smile

________________________________________

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rich@lynxpowerengineering.co.uk
07732 822546

Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 02:39
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spiky

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Location: Cardiff

Registered: 13 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,310

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Post #19
Do you have an sc kits out there with a decom plate rich?

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 02:47
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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,424

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Post #20
260 not enough then?

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 03:02
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spiky

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Location: Cardiff

Registered: 13 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,310

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Post #21
Only done one slow track day, but you always want more lol

It kills me knowing I have a restrictor pmsl

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 03:18
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rallyeash

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Location: Devizes

Registered: 11 Dec 2006

Posts: 4,424

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Post #22
haha, its like sex, enough is never enough....

________________________________________

230 hp 2.1 16v XU 205 rallye on jenveysHyper Project thread here
309 3dr K20 Type R
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 03:53
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matty_rallye

Senior User

Location: Devizes

Registered: 28 Oct 2005

Posts: 966

Status: Offline
Post #23
cjm_harris wrote:
matty_rallye wrote:
You would have no hope of going around a track or putting the power down on the road without lsd.


This just with a SC gti6'd 205, or a 306 too? Unsure


If i started building a track car again then i would put a diff near the top of the list, even with a standard engine, nevermind 260 bhp.

________________________________________

2.1 16v 306 Rallye.
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 03:56
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spiky

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Location: Cardiff

Registered: 13 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,310

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Post #24
Agreed, a diff. Made a big difference for in my 205 when it was just a STD gti6 engine Smile

________________________________________

Do you need a 205 > 306 gti6 plug and go engine loom? PM ME

TORQUES for all your braided fuel line needs

MY YouTube Videos'

SUPERCHARGED 205 GTI6.... are you Fooking nuts!.... ummmm YIP Smile

268+BHP and 860kg = FUN
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 04:14
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daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline
Post #25
+1 probably the best single mod you can do in a front driven track car. After that the gains seem to get smaller and more expensive to come by Wink

________________________________________

R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.

Some of my services: (See my for sale threads)
Engine mount/chassis repair
Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION
Harness bars
Posted 30th Jun 2011 at 04:55
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