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Author Subject: How to fully remove inlet Mani?
davewagon

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Post #26
I will double check, although i'm postitive i've tightened all bolts tight (maybe even too tight)

The bung should be okay, i gave it another press to make sure it is in tightly (used the O-ring from the Helmzholtz resonator)

If its not this, could there be damage to the fuel rail, is it possible for the injector not to seat properly?

What would cause the popping/cracking?

Thanks for all the help, Dave

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 16:18
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atterz

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Post #27
Too tight isnt ideal, do you have a talking wrench Smile ? Yes its highly possible that an injector seal has been damaged if you removed them! I dare say popping/cracking is it back firing due to unmetered air entering and confusing the ECU!

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 16:26
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #28
Injector seal or that bung isn't sealing correctly in my opinion...

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 16:44
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swiftyboi006

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Post #29
Injector seal Thumbs up

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 16:51
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davewagon

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Post #30
I've steeped away from this for an hour or so to visit some family

I'm goin to temporarily say the bung us fine, as it was in and car working properly the first time we fitted the gasket

Therefore the injector not seated properly/seal damage?

How an I check to see which one it is (I.e not sitting properly or buggered)

Should I be able to wiggle it?

I might loosen off the bolts one last time and make sure it is all sitting flush ?

The car seemingly worked fine, all we did was loosen off the bolts to enable the manifold to shift slightly to refit bolts J&K from the guide, then tightened them back up

Would this have been enough to shift an injector?

Regards, Dave

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ian7675 wrote:
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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 17:15
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #31
Best remove the rail and clean it all up and replace anyway just to be sure. Its only 2 bolts after all...

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 17:18
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #32
If it's drivable and you still can't figure it out, feel free to pop over with it. I'm only about 40 mins max from you. Wink

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 17:22
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davewagon

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Post #33
Thank you Stan, that's very generous of you (unfortunately I may take you up on that offer if I can't crack this, for which some beer tokens or an Easter egg are for you lol)

Could you give me a little more info on removing the fuel rail (two bolts you say)?

Does that give me access to injectors without having to remove the manifold again?

Many thanks, Dave

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ian7675 wrote:
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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 17:54
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atterz

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Post #34
Yes it will do mate!

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owain wrote:
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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 19:26
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davewagon

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Post #35
Right I had another look but didnt really get very far!

I undid the screws holding the fuel rail to the manifold, and unclipped the plugs into the injectors - but after that didn't really know where to proceed so had a little wiggle and tried to make sure they were all seated properly (although I haven't a clue).

So I tightened everything back up and had another go...

So again it started and revved right up - I then give a little tap to the accelerator and it settled down to running lumpy - then started popping and banging! (you can just see the flash of the explosion where the manifold meets the engine Dunno )
So we turn it off quick sharp, you can just see smoke coming from the manifold on cylinder 2 (second from the left)

I took a video of it, but annoyingly it didn't start banging this time so I couldn't catch that on tape?



Its a bit long, but you can hear the engine over revving from the off - then it dies down and at about 40 secs falls into a repeating cycle where it tries to start revving again, then dies back and starts again? But it didn't bang this time Dunno

So any thoughts, how can I get this fixed tomorrow?
(I'm not sure if it's drivable to Cambridgeshire, and surely everything would be boiling hot by the time I arrived, so I think your bank holiday Monday may be safe after all Stan LOL)


(Edit: oh yeah, and a siren at the end, very apt for Corby Laugh my ass off)

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ian7675 wrote:
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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 21:11
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #36
Carl aka Mechanical Repairs is probably closer to you in Leicester than I am to be fair...

Deffo sounds like an air leak. I take it you have plugged the ICV back in properly? Unfortunately, I can't watch the video at the moment as I'm on my phone but will take a look first thing tomorrow. Yes

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 21:43
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davewagon

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Post #37
Cheers Stan, appreciate you taking the time to have a look

Erm, I assume it's plugged back in correctly but will have another check tomorrow

Will the banging, and combustion have caused any serious damage, it only did it a handful of times in total?

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 22:38
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ryangti6

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Post #38
It shouldn't have done any damage but wont do it much good.

I looks like it hasnt seated against the head properly to me given that you can see that backfire, take all the nuts and bolts back off that hold it to the head and start again ensuring the manifold face is sitting flush with the head.

Did you use a standard gasket along with the ptfe one? I've heard a few people have sealing issues with them so use a standard gasket either side of it.

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Posted 8th Apr 2012 at 23:26
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davewagon

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Post #39
ryangti6 wrote:

I looks like it hasnt seated against the head properly to me given that you can see that backfire, take all the nuts and bolts back off that hold it to the head and start again ensuring the manifold face is sitting flush with the head.


Cheers Ryan! That would be handy if that were the issue

Erm no, I scraped all the remnants of the old paper gasket off and just replaced it with the PTFE gasket. Didn't place any type of standard gasket on any side of the PTFE one - was I supposed to, I thought they were a direct replacement.

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Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 00:11
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #40
They are a direct replacement, however I always fit a standard one then the PTFE then a standard one then the manifold just for peace of mind. However, you don't have to do this.

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Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 07:40
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #41
Ok Dave, I've had a look at the video. Yes

It sounds like its hunting for the last half of the video. It's definitely receiving some unmetered air which is sending the ECU in all sorts of directions.

Either the PTFE isn't sealing, or the injectors (unlikely if you didn't actually remove them) or that new bung you fitted is letting some air by. My feeling would be the PTFE, however, best thing to do is to completely remove the manifold, and put some silicone sealant around the edges where the bung sits to seal it properly for sure. Refit the manifold, preferably with standard gaskets either side, or if you don't have them, just make sure you do the bolts up evenly and to the correct torque and then put everything else back together. Thumbs up

Let us know how you get on. Thumbs up

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Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 08:40
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davewagon

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Post #42
Right, thanks very much for the help!

Motor factors seem to be shut for the bank holiday, so extra gaskets are out I fear.

I'm going to have another crack now, will let you know how i get on (although I will need to get my hands on a torque wrench first)

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Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 11:08
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woody.

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Post #43
Have you tried unplugging the battery for 10-15mins to reset the ECU? Probably not the problem but thought I may as well throw it out there!
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 12:36
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davewagon

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Post #44
HUZZAH! (Possibly premature, but I think I may have it working again, subject to scrutiny of the below video)



My guess as to what happened was, as I slackened it off to fit and tighten bolts J & K. I tightened these up fully which in turn meant I couldn't then get a proper seal over the manifold gasket.

So I loosened everything off again, put in bolts J & K but only wound them in a few turns, then proceeded to evenly tighten up all bolts around the gasket before returning to tighten bolts J & K.

And it seems to work?

This may be a temporary fix though, here are my questions:

1) All motor factors are shut today, so I could not get my hands on some paper gaskets to sandwich the PTFE one - should I still aim to do this - or leave it well alone now it seems to work?

2) I couldn't get my hands on a torque wrench that goes low enough (If I'm reading correctly, Haynes manual says 20nm for 2.0 ltr manifold bolts [section 4c]).
As such i have done them hand tight, being conscious not to do them bas**rd tight - Should I get my hands on a low range wrench and go round and redo the bolts?

All your help has been massively appreciated Smoke (Certainly got my £5 worth this weekend!)

Strangely, having gone from doing nothing mechanical to my car - I went from taking the manifold from once to three times in the space of two days lol - I also noticed my droplink has completely snapped off, so that's a job for next weekend I feel.

Kind regards,
Dave

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ian7675 wrote:
Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job Thumbs up
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 15:11
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davewagon

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Post #45
woody. wrote:
Have you tried unplugging the battery for 10-15mins to reset the ECU? Probably not the problem but thought I may as well throw it out there!


Cheers Woody, I haven't tried doing this, as the car now seems settled - I may just leave it well alone and go get a curry instead!

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ian7675 wrote:
Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job Thumbs up
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 15:12
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #46
davewagon wrote:
My guess as to what happened was, as I slackened it off to fit and tighten bolts J & K. I tightened these up fully which in turn meant I couldn't then get a proper seal over the manifold gasket.

So I loosened everything off again, put in bolts J & K but only wound them in a few turns, then proceeded to evenly tighten up all bolts around the gasket before returning to tighten bolts J & K.

And it seems to work?


Sounds good to me Dave! Yes

This scenario is exactly what happened, you needed to make sure that you got the gasket face seating nice and correct and then tighten J and K bolts down afterwards. Thumbs up

Seeing as its now running fine, I wouldn't mess with it again putting extra gaskets in. No

Well done Dave! Cheers

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 17:27
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davewagon

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Post #47
Cheers matey, it's sorted now so there are other issues to tend to

Cheers for your help!

Dave

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ian7675 wrote:
Remember....a 6 isn't just a car, it's a part time job Thumbs up
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 17:57
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #48
No worries mate, glad you got it resolved. Cheers

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 18:41
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atterz

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Post #49
Glad its sorted out mate Big grin Let me know how you go on with the bung/gasket. Been interested in doing this to mine!

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owain wrote:
A GTI-6 with a good dashboard and the seats down can outsprint an E46 M3 in July.
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 19:04
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stan_306gti6 Forum Admin

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Post #50
atterz wrote:
Glad its sorted out mate Big grin Let me know how you go on with the bung/gasket. Been interested in doing this to mine!


I've got a feeling it will lose torque through doing this, but as I have never tried it myself I will await and see the results. Smile

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"Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"
Peugeot 306 GTi-6
2000 (X), Moonstone Love
Posted 9th Apr 2012 at 19:22
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