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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 30
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| Author | Subject: gti6 inlet on cad |
 bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro  Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #1
Been playing about with this today, needed to redesign the standard inlet manifold from the gti6 engine so i can improve the design using flow simulation. Anyway, its not 100% yet as some of the measurements are a bit out (eg i think the runners are a bit too long) but you get the gist. opinions comments welcome   ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
 Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 21:32
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thugpuggin
Seasoned Pro  Location: Bristol Registered: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 26,784 Status: Offline |
Post #2
bobdylan_55 wrote: opinions comments welcome Group buy? 1. Midlife ________________________________________ Black X Reg PIII.VGTi 6 A4212 pt 1 A4212 pt 2 Searching the streets of Bristol for 1.36p/day.Joint Kent Leader |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 21:34
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #3
haha  wait till i get the improved design done and tested then you can decide  ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 21:35
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:::mattuk:::
Junior User  Location: Lancaster Registered: 21 May 2010 Posts: 54 Status: Offline |
Post #4
Nice work, what program you using?I've played around with PRO Engineer wildfire 2... 2-Stroke Glow engine 15cc. I animated this so everything moves including the ball races.  R/C Servo I had to destroy a £70 servo to make this drawing.  Matt. ________________________________________ Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until they speak. |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 21:55
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #5
using solidworks 2010 with flow simulation incorporated. I know solidworks probably isnt the best software to use, but as its got all the extras included and is relatively simple to use (compared with autocad etc which are shite) its a good way to go. Plus we use it at uni lolfor my uni cad project i have to desgin a skid steer digger with an auger bit from ground up, ie drivetrain, bearings, seals, chassis, hydraulics, with calculated loads on all structural members and hydraulics. Ball ache i tell thee. ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 21:57
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #6
mmm ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 22:39
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anth_gti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: sunderland Registered: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 5,264 Status: Offline |
Post #7
looks good but it is missing the part that goes into the resonator, between ports 2 and 3 ________________________________________ ex white Phase 1 Gti6, killed at cadwell park in November 07 |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 23:23
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #8
good point dorothy. I actually need the resonator for the flow works so will add it in some point friday ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 29th Dec 2010 at 23:34
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smegal
Seasoned Pro  Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #9
I remember the digger assignment last year, it was a BALLACHE. I literally was in B225 from 9am 'till 9pm for 2 weeks. ________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 00:08
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #10
smegal wrote: I remember the digger assignment last year, it was a BALLACHE. I literally was in B225 from 9am 'till 9pm for 2 weeks. ive started early on it and managed to get the chassis and first arms done and also the wheels, tyres, and hub assembly including bearings, hub, drivesprocket etc. kinda find cad fun tho tbh lol ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 00:10
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smegal
Seasoned Pro Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #11
That module is worth as much as your project so fair play to you.________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 00:37
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prism7guy
Seasoned Pro  Location: DoncastAAAAARGH Registered: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 4,640 Status: Offline |
Post #12
CAD was one of my favourite modules at uni, I hated autoCAD but got on ok with solidworks and pro engineer.For CFD we used Gambit and Fluent, and I didnt really get on with them, though fluent did make nice colourful flow arrows  ________________________________________ Goldie the track car. |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 00:48
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24seven
Seasoned Pro  Location: Derby Registered: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 6,221 Status: Offline |
Post #13
Looking good so far bob (sorry don't know your real name). Have you chopped open a real one to measure the trumpets within the plenum? I really enjoyed CAD last year but we don't have it as a module for this year, we're just expected to know how to use it. I've been speaking to the course tutor about getting it added into the timetable after Christmas though. Classmates are gonna love me.  We use UGS NX5 which has CFD and stress testing packages al built in. Last year we had to design & model a dry sump pan for a Zetec engine as part of a bigger project, this year we have to model the LOCOST from the workshop and design & make an adjustable ARB to actually go on it. ________________________________________ Ph1 306 GTi 6 | RX8 231 S1 | YBR 125 Cafe Racer | MT-03 660 |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 02:02
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #14
don't forget the trumpets!________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 03:19
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #15
the trumpets are already on, just hard to see on that second picture. Ill get a better cross sectional picture on friday. Unfortunately ive not cut one open yet as im waiting for somebody to drop a spare one off for cutting up and measuring. I have however modelled the inside on the pictures from a thread on this website (where some guy cut it open to flush the trumpets off) and modelled the trumpets on that. Cheers for the input, ill keep you posted. ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 03:53
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af1-gti
Senior User Location: avoiding my pug Registered: 08 Nov 2010 Posts: 807 Status: Offline |
Post #16
always wanted to learn how to do this, looks awesome________________________________________ Rich E wrote: With the 306 Rallye the goal wasn't to make a purer or more focussed car. It was to make a cheaper car, and then cynically use Peugeot's motorsport heritage to make it appeal to enthusiasts. |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 04:09
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will130787
Seasoned Pro  Location: Reading Registered: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 3,933 Status: Offline |
Post #17
bobdylan_55 wrote: the trumpets are already on, just hard to see on that second picture. Ill get a better cross sectional picture on friday. Unfortunately ive not cut one open yet as im waiting for somebody to drop a spare one off for cutting up and measuring. I have however modelled the inside on the pictures from a thread on this website (where some guy cut it open to flush the trumpets off) and modelled the trumpets on that. Cheers for the input, ill keep you posted. Daveyboy iirc Other than that I have no input because I don't understand it  ________________________________________ Ex Astor 6 ownerAlso an Ex owner of a Bianca 6 Now an ex owner of a 2005 9-3 2.0T 210bhp Aero Swedish Saloon thing!! Soon to be 250bhp....  Now driving Mk5 Golf GTTdi, mile muncher But still live for the 306  |
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Posted 30th Dec 2010 at 04:33
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #18
yes please  ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 31st Dec 2010 at 05:12
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smegal
Seasoned Pro Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #19
Looking good. Happy Birthday. ________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 31st Dec 2010 at 06:05
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #20
LOL it aint my birthday for 6 months, i think its set wrong ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 31st Dec 2010 at 15:40
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #21
just flowed i and came out with some figures for mass flow rate in kg/s. Here are the flow trajectories. Note for now it does not have a resonator in, and also i havent fully measured the trumpets they are just estimated so could change. anyway the figures show that cylinder 1 (closest to throttle body) is roughly down 9.5% on mass flow compared with cylinders 2 and 3, whilst cylinder 4 is enjoying roughly 8% more. It will be interesting to see if the resonator levels these out, and if not its obvious there is room for improvement especially on n/a engines. Note that pressure at the throttle was 2bar (as im running forced induction) but id expect it to be roughly the same (percentage wise) as its mass flow not velocity. ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 31st Dec 2010 at 17:45
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cwspellowe
Seasoned Pro  Location: Calderbank Registered: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 6,496 Status: Offline |
Post #22
Would it not make a difference if you were sucking air from the block end as opposed to forcing air in from the throttle body?Reason I say that is because with NA engines the air only enters the manifold as it's needed. Under forced induction it fires air straight at the far end of the manifold so the mass accumulates at cylinder 4. If air was being drawn at a constant rate into all four cyclinders i'd have thought cylinder 1 would have got the higher mass of air entering it? The flow rate would be determined by the throttle body size, and cylinder 1 would be top of the list of cylinders to draw from the air mass in the chamber. Then 2, 3 and finally 4 with whatever's left. I guess a question to raise is does the throttle body.. 1. Allow too little air to pass through it under NA circumstances and starve cylinder 4 of air or 2. Allow a controlled amount to enter to ensure all four cylinders get an even distribution of air or 3. Allow too much air into the manifold and leave cylinder 4 with more air mass after cylinders 1, 2 and 3 have taken their share...  ________________________________________ Bye bye Sundance Kid |
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Posted 2nd Jan 2011 at 00:33
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smegal
Seasoned Pro Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #23
Another consideration is the fact that it pulses as opposed to constantly flowing. You may find that the trumpets are longer on the standard too. How accurate is your drawing to the real one dimension wise. Would you be able to email to me. ________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 2nd Jan 2011 at 00:35
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bobdylan_55
Seasoned Pro Location: derby Registered: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1,466 Status: Offline |
Post #24
No its all to do with angles. Obviously the first cylinder the air will need to take a more extreme angle into the runner so wont be sucked in as much. In reply to the forced/n/a query, im not 100% sure yet as im not sure if im setting up the constants properly. One thing i thought of earlier is that all 4 ports are not going to be open all at once, hence i need to set it up to flow based on timing (ie 360 cycle) I think however my findings are correct to a degree as ive been looking in a few books and found that on average the first cylinder is down around 3-5% and the 4th cylinder will be 5-7% up. with a resonator plugged in (tried it earlier with a box one) it is very close to them figures. As said tho, i think that will just be a constant flow rate and not based on a running engine. ________________________________________ 309 GTi6-T |
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Posted 2nd Jan 2011 at 00:37
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smegal
Seasoned Pro Location: Leeds Registered: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,940 Status: Offline |
Post #25
One thing that I don't know if it's the same with a higher boosted on is that my SC-6 runs shitloads of vacuum unless it's getting booted.________________________________________ Ex SC-6Now in a Megane R26 |
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Posted 2nd Jan 2011 at 00:38
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