Maybe a stage II inlet? - Engines Forum - Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club

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Subject: Maybe a stage II inlet?

cwspellowe

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Post #1

Just looking for a bit of clarification really, Peter's not got back to me yet. The car's got a pretty strong engine already on standard cams, RR'd at 179bhp and 152lbft this summer at Ecosse so even if the figures are over-inflated it's at least making book power. I'm not trying to make out that "camz wud giv me 200bhp eazee" or anything daft, I don't have a target power gain, just fancy making a small step forward. Especially if most of the parts are being bought for me LOL

Engine currently has carbon enclosed induction kit, advanced inlet cam timing, Powerflow decat and Magnex decat back. Possibly home made bike bodies over winter.

Am I right in thinking the stage I regrinds offer no extra lift, just increase the duration? So theoretically just a stage I inlet cam, standard exhaust cam + remap of the standard ECU should suffice?

Obviously cambelt etc would be done at the same time, but no need for solid lifters/pocketed pistons/increased CR?

Birthday in 3 weeks you see, and the missus wants to treat me LOL

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 03:06

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adam b

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Post #2

Yes thats pretty much it. Does need a remap to work properly though. I was going down this route before I chickened out and went the obviously easier V6 way... Doh

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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 18:40

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gti-dan

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Post #3

surely a longer duration can still pose a risk of a valve-to-piston catastrophe? As there is still enough lift to clash if the valve opens too early???

Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 18:49

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welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

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Post #4

Longer duration only causes issues if you have too much lift at TDC.

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Posted 3rd Oct 2010 at 19:17

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cwspellowe

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Post #5

So timed properly on a stage I with standard exhaust valve should cause no drama?

Obviously there's a chance of valve-to-valve contact but i'm guessing if the inlet cam's fitted with the cam pulleys locked in place the timing SHOULD just need tweaking?

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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 00:29

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mabgti

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Post #6

you will have no drama with the slighlty longer duration on the inlet cam only.. i ran a piper inlet a while back, didnt need mapping as it wasnt too aggresive. Yes there are benefits.. but the longer duration means less aggresive ramp profile causing low speed(rpm) responsiveness to decrease due to lower vacuum.. But obviously allows for more torque and a better peak due to the increase air intake per cylinder.

The thing you have to remember is.. more air per revolution means it needs more fuel or it will run leaner which causes the lambda to compensate. So you negate the daily driving experience of the cam if you dont have it mapped.

Best bet is to get a dastek on there for minor mods. As running lean at 7200rpm is not a good idea and knock sensor will only pull a few degrees of timing at a time..

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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 07:05

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cwspellowe

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Post #7

That's the kind of info I needed Cool

Out of curiosity though, will it still be within the mappable thresholds of the standard ECU? And i'm guessing i'd be safe to fit the cam, time it myself then drive to Ecosse (maybe 30mins away) to get it mapped on the rollers?

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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 23:33

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mabgti

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Post #8

Yup

Should be ok to drive.. can ecosse map the mm 1ap?

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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 23:37

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welshpug!

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Post #9

what's the costs of a piggyback ecu+mapping compared to just mapping the 1AP?

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Posted 4th Oct 2010 at 23:42

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cwspellowe

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Post #10

Haven't looked into costs yet, aren't Dasteks a couple of hundred quid though?

There's a Dastek over the Forth Road Bridge from where I am so am guessing they can supply and fit, heard a few stories about them though so not sure what the best option is.

I'd have thought Ecosse could map the 1AP considering they're the "Peugeot Specialists" but tbh even they're farcical. They wanted to charge Mat (oecken) �600 for his MOT work Doh

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Posted 5th Oct 2010 at 01:31

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mabgti

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Post #11

ecosse made their money from scotsmen with small fuel tanks LOL

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Posted 5th Oct 2010 at 04:01

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cwspellowe

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Post #12

I'm not Scottish Wink

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Posted 5th Oct 2010 at 15:49

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mabgti

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Post #13

my ex was... still a bit sore... LOL

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Posted 5th Oct 2010 at 16:07

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cwspellowe

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Post #14

I think Peter's trying to twist my arm into going a stage further...

PeterT wrote:

Hi,
if you're going to remap it, I'd be doing Stage II on the inlet and Stage I on the exhaust. Valve to piston clearance will still be fine with both. Sorry, but I don't have any solid hp data. Everyone just seems satisfied!

Changing the exhaust cam will open up more top end hp.

I have some cams here I could grind and sell you outright if desired. That will save considerably on shipping.

regards

Peter Taylor

So might well be looking at a stage II inlet and stage I exhaust, sounds similar to the ph2

Stage I

Advertised Duration 250
Duration @ 0.050� 215
Maximum Lift 0.380"
Lift @ TDC 0.042
Lobe Centre Angle 111

Stage II

Advertised Duration 255
Duration @ 0.050� 221
Maximum Lift 0.399"
Lift @ TDC 0.050"
Lobe Centre Angle 111

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 02:58

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mabgti

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Post #15

id stick to kent cams... well proven pt81's back in the good old days Yes

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 03:33

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cwspellowe

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Post #16

I don't know, given Peter's reputation and the price he's quoting i'd be daft to say no. Think Yanni had the stage I's and made 197bhp, albeit with head porting.

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 03:34

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mr swampy s16

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Post #17

cwspellowe wrote:

I don't know, given Peter's reputation and the price he's quoting i'd be daft to say no. Think Yanni had the stage I's and made 197bhp, albeit with head porting.

have you asked on 205 drivers if any one has a rr readout for the cams??

lots of talk of them being good but to be fair its not a �10 mod so id want to be seeing hard facts and figures first

Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 03:52

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welshpug!

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Post #18

Magic has used Pete's cam profiles in a few builds, I'll see if I can find any info.

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 04:06

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cwspellowe

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Post #19

Cheers Mei, more info the better. The thing that appeals to me is the relative safety with standard pistons.

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 04:13

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cjm_harris

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Post #20

I bought some cams to get reprofiled by Peter to the same spec as you.

As I have now sold the throttle bodies, and not going down this route, they are up for sale if you want them?

I think they are S16 cams (easier to work with to 6 cams) Mei will confirm though hopefully Yes

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Chris
1999 China Gti6 Supercharged Devil

[Fun car] >>Project Thread<<
2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout]

Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 19:24

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chrisd306

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Post #21

Can ecosse remap for you? id def try davie although i know youve already spoke to him, mate i had a f*cking old dastak aswell which was unlocked!

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 19:42

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cwspellowe

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Post #22

the Dastek would have been handy as f*ck. Told davie he can chuck a couple of stickers on the motor if he does me mates rates LOL

Think they'll be playing a big part in the build tbh, most questions are being bounced off him. Will be easier to run off standalone/piggyback in a way because i won't have to knock up a plenum for the OEM ICV and MAP, can just blank off the bodies' injector ports too.

Wouldn't touch ecosse tbh, they'll charge a fortune and some of their work is a bit suspect from what i've heard.

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 23:51

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cwspellowe

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Post #23

oh and cjm, Peter has a couple of cams over there he can supply and grind, would be cheaper than me posting mine over

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Posted 12th Oct 2010 at 23:52

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cjm_harris

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Post #24

cwspellowe wrote:

oh and cjm, Peter has a couple of cams over there he can supply and grind, would be cheaper than me posting mine over

No worries bud Thumbs up

He bloddy didnt have any when I wanted them Laugh

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Chris
1999 China Gti6 Supercharged Devil

[Fun car] >>Project Thread<<
2000 Bianca 306 Diesel [Work runabout]

Posted 15th Oct 2010 at 14:13

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