displaying posts 1 to 8 of 8

Author Subject: cutting standard pistons
gti-dan

Regular

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 461

Status: Offline

Post #1
right i've decided that im going to start getting things lined up for some internal engine mods.

As i need to stay as a 2000cc not going for bores / cranks. Just going to get some OE pistons cut for pockets for some better cams.. couple of questions though...

1. Will ask Sandy to do the machining - obviously he knows what he's doing but out of interest - how thin is the crown of the piston - is there are risk of going through it when machining it? And how likely is it that you could crack it or blow through it when running?

2. Are the edges likely to get hot and cause detination???

3. I believe the pistons can be removed and refitted with the engine still in the car? is this right??

4. I know the heads are already very good but is there anything worth doing to it whilst its off?

5. Whcih cams do you recommend for good increase in torque?

Cheers,

Dan
Posted 5th Jun 2010 at 17:37
Rich E Forum Admin

Location: Hertfordshire

Registered: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 7,757

Status: Offline

Post #2
Talk to Sandy about what you are going to use the engine for. He is an experienced enough engine builder to know the best spec and setup for what you want.

Head wise, clean it, check the guides for wear and the valves for run-out, re-cut the valve seats and replace the stem seals.

As for the pistons, yes you can remove them from the engine without removing it from the car but it would be very awkward work without a proper lift / ramp and it would make far more sense to strip the bottom end down and replace all the bearing shells & seals while the engine is apart anyway.

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Posted 5th Jun 2010 at 17:59
jcphat

Seasoned Pro

Location: In the day room, Nurse!

Registered: 22 Feb 2008

Posts: 1,061

Status: Offline

Post #3
I think you may find martin, crf450, knows about machining pistons for the 6.

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Posted 5th Jun 2010 at 21:12
matty_rallye

Senior User

Location: Devizes

Registered: 28 Oct 2005

Posts: 966

Status: Offline

Post #4
gti-dan wrote:
right i've decided that im going to start getting things lined up for some internal engine mods.

As i need to stay as a 2000cc not going for bores / cranks. Just going to get some OE pistons cut for pockets for some better cams.. couple of questions though...

1. Will ask Sandy to do the machining - obviously he knows what he's doing but out of interest - how thin is the crown of the piston - is there are risk of going through it when machining it? And how likely is it that you could crack it or blow through it when running?

2. Are the edges likely to get hot and cause detination???

3. I believe the pistons can be removed and refitted with the engine still in the car? is this right??

4. I know the heads are already very good but is there anything worth doing to it whilst its off?

5. Whcih cams do you recommend for good increase in torque?

Cheers,

Dan


With regards to having the standard piston valve cuts enlarged there is a small amount that can be removed safely, i had this done on a previous engine build, however with the cams used (catcam 110's) the timing still had to be retarded slightly to allow for clearance (which is far from ideal). Be careful with the figures given by companys such as catcams as we found that even when they stated there would be enough valve clearance on standard pistons it was too tight to be left.

When we removed the engine for its rebuld with new pistons etc we still found what looked to be very slight marks on the pistons from the valves.
It may be worth biting the bullet if poss and buying something built to suit from the start.

There is a certain amount of work that could be done to the head, depends on the rest of the engine really, inlet mods etc.

The catcams 109's would probably be suitable for what you are looking at.

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Posted 5th Jun 2010 at 22:31
gti-dan

Regular

Location: Yorkshire

Registered: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 461

Status: Offline

Post #5
hmmmm i know but once i start pricing everything up it puts me off thats why i wanted to do it on the cheap! if i went for proper forged pistons then could i do it ithout boring the engine? i thought you needed to bore a bit to stop piston slap when going forged? but i cant due to sprint regs.
Posted 6th Jun 2010 at 13:39
daveyboy

aka Jim Davey

Location: Southampton

Registered: 01 Oct 2007

Posts: 8,648

Status: Offline

Post #6
gti-dan wrote:
hmmmm i know but once i start pricing everything up it puts me off thats why i wanted to do it on the cheap! if i went for proper forged pistons then could i do it ithout boring the engine? i thought you needed to bore a bit to stop piston slap when going forged? but i cant due to sprint regs.


Ash Hargreaves managed to get away with fitting standard sized (86mm)pistons. it's not ideal, but if there is no alternative your best bet is to find out how worn your bores are, if they are still 'on size' you should get away with a light bore de-glaze. It's not ideal but if trying to stay within class regs it's your only option.

Another reason to seriously consider a forged piston is that they have far better thermal conductivity, this means the piston crown will transmit the heat of combustion away far quicker reducing the heat of the crown significantly. This in turn gives far superior protection aginst harmful detonation.

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Posted 6th Jun 2010 at 15:37
bobdylan_55

Seasoned Pro

Location: derby

Registered: 28 Mar 2009

Posts: 1,466

Status: Offline

Post #7
dont you get problems with the oil spray bars if you use cams with too much lift?

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Posted 9th Jun 2010 at 10:28
welshpug!

Capt Pedantic

Location: Bigend, Wales.

Registered: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 25,838

Status: Offline

Post #8
depends on the size of your base circle, but generally yes you do risk that, though you'd need quite a lot more than standard to do that.

typically you'd be making the valve open earlier and for longer, rather than opening it further.

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Posted 10th Jun 2010 at 05:03

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