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Author Subject: Misfire On Start Up
black 6

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Location: Berkshire

Registered: 09 Dec 2004

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Post #1
I got a brief (10-20seconds) misfire when I start the car. Not all the time but it is worse if the car has been sat a while. Once it goes the car is fine. I am thinking maybe spark plugs. Any other ideas what might be causing it??

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 16th Apr 2010 at 21:01
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rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

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Post #2
do a comp test, every time i hear this is turns out to be symptoms of head gasket failure. had this myself a few times and it's been HG too. leaking overnight and it misfiring whilst it burns it clear and then runs ok..

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Posted 16th Apr 2010 at 21:10
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birk

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Location: Doncaster

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Post #3
Ditto what rikky said, i had this problem and the headgasket blew not long after.

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Dan
Posted 16th Apr 2010 at 21:11
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black 6

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Post #4
Yeah but it has done it for ages. I get no pressure build up in the rad overnight which is apparantly a sign of HG failure. I will try a comp test first.

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 16th Apr 2010 at 21:19
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black 6

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Post #5
Can you get a genuine head gasket from GSF, who normally makes them? As the HG has not actually gone there is no need to get the head skimmed correct? Do I need to replace the exhaust manifold gaskets while I am at it?

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 20:59
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rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

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Post #6
why are you taking the head off if the HG has not gone?

did you do the comp test to see readings of compression?

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306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:01
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black 6

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Post #7
rikky wrote:
why are you taking the head off if the HG has not gone?

did you do the comp test to see readings of compression?
I mean completly gone oil is coolant etc. No comp test being done tomorrow just preparing for the worst so I can change it Saturday if its leaking. What else could it be?

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:05
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rikky 🦔

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Post #8
if your comp test comes back fine and no signs of hg failure then obviously look elsewhere like sensors, coilpacks, fuel supply, relay on back of battery could even be damp

if it comes back suspicious, you will need obviously the HG and as a matter of course i would replace any other gaskets you remove anyway, like the inlet and exhaust gaskets Yes they don't really cost much, it's worth doing

i would always check the head and see if it needs skimming at a proper engine place tbh, i had my s16 head removed and refitted without skimming and it was poor. worth doing..

when i rebuilt my s16 engine i got all my head gasket and bolts from euro car parts but i took samples in for them, as head bolts sometimes vary. i think the gti6 is simpler though

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306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:07
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black 6

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Post #9
rikky wrote:
if your comp test comes back fine and no signs of hg failure then obviously look elsewhere like sensors, coilpacks, fuel supply, relay on back of battery could even be damp

if it comes back suspicious, you will need obviously the HG and as a matter of course i would replace any other gaskets you remove anyway, like the inlet and exhaust gaskets Yes they don't really cost much, it's worth doing

i would always check the head and see if it needs skimming at a proper engine place tbh, i had my s16 head removed and refitted without skimming and it was poor. worth doing..
For a skim the head has to be bare, how hard is it to remove cams etc and re fit. I have the haynes manual if that helps.

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:07
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rikky 🦔

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Post #10
do you have another car to use? pulling engines apart is fine if you have another car and are prepared to get on the learning curve but can be tedious.. it's not the hardest thing to anyone competent with spanners to be fair, it is time consuming first time round though

________________________________________

306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:09
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black 6

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Post #11
rikky wrote:
do you have another car to use? pulling engines apart is fine if you have another car and are prepared to get on the learning curve but can be tedious.. it's not the hardest thing to anyone competent with spanners to be fair, it is time consuming first time round though
Yeah have the wifes car. I have changed a TU 1.4 head gasket a year ago so can't be that much different really.

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 20th Apr 2010 at 21:10
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black 6

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Post #12
Just had compression test done. He could not get the plug out of cylinder 4 (cambelt) was very tight. He was worried it would snap and the thread doctor would be required!
The readings across the other 3 were
155
160 & about 170. Advice welcome

Edit-Just looking at other posts this seems quite low, I did say to the mechanic that I had read a healthy engine should make 190-200 he said whats important is they are close to each other

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 22nd Apr 2010 at 22:39
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spitfire

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Post #13
Bloody cars, mine has started doing this too! Will check the Rad coolent thing in the morning. Then wash my hands of the car and leave my mate to do a compression test and find out what is wrong with the stupid thing!

What is the rough cost of a head gasket replacement?

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Posted 22nd Apr 2010 at 23:35
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adam b

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Post #14
black 6 wrote:
Just had compression test done. He could not get the plug out of cylinder 4 (cambelt) was very tight. He was worried it would snap and the thread doctor would be required!
The readings across the other 3 were
155
160 & about 170. Advice welcome

Edit-Just looking at other posts this seems quite low, I did say to the mechanic that I had read a healthy engine should make 190-200 he said whats important is they are close to each other


You need to try to get that other plug out. He is right about them being very similar in value rather than being too worried about it being a tad low. Could just be the tester gauge itself isn't that accurate.

Mine did the running on 3 thing on starting for about 9 months (15k) before blowing between two cylinders.

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Posted 22nd Apr 2010 at 23:46
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black 6

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Post #15
adam b wrote:
black 6 wrote:
Just had compression test done. He could not get the plug out of cylinder 4 (cambelt) was very tight. He was worried it would snap and the thread doctor would be required!
The readings across the other 3 were
155
160 & about 170. Advice welcome

Edit-Just looking at other posts this seems quite low, I did say to the mechanic that I had read a healthy engine should make 190-200 he said whats important is they are close to each other


You need to try to get that other plug out. He is right about them being very similar in value rather than being too worried about it being a tad low. Could just be the tester gauge itself isn't that accurate.

Mine did the running on 3 thing on starting for about 9 months (15k) before blowing between two cylinders.
It has done the misfire thing for quite a while now. Any tips on getting the really tight plug out without breaking it.

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 22nd Apr 2010 at 23:50
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Rich E Forum Admin

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Post #16
Large breaker bar and build up the force gradually until it gives.

Or an air ratchet...

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Rich
Posted 23rd Apr 2010 at 01:07
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black 6

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Post #17
Rich E wrote:
Large breaker bar and build up the force gradually until it gives.

Or an air ratchet...
He put a small bar and quite a bit of pressure on it so not too hopeful. Sad

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 23rd Apr 2010 at 02:54
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black 6

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Post #18
Ok the misfire has now stopped! (runs and touches wood) Rikky mentioned the relay on the back of the battery and on closer inspection this has broken off and is floating around. Could this be the issue? It certainly seems better when the weather is dryer so this could make sense. Should I replace the relay or just tape up the hole now its dry?????????

________________________________________

Although it's no longer available new, it's worth trying to get hold of a good example second-hand. As GTi's get tubbier and cooler, it's nice to remind yourself of why insurance companies hate hot-hatches so much.-Top Gear on the 6 Apr '01. Black 6
Posted 5th May 2010 at 18:15
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rikky 🦔

Location: cheshire

Registered: 28 Feb 2004

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Post #19
i have had a nightmare getting my 306 to run and it has been the box in question sticking. i literally smackd it a few times and forced power to it and all is good. i believe there's a magnet in it like a normal relay that can stick, that's what mine has been.. stopped fuel pump and all sorts [s16 engine]

________________________________________

306 rallye reproduction decals (full sets/individual decals) | 306 b-pillar textured vinyl weatherstrips
306 slam panel esso stickers | 306 yellow / orange / pension fund red side door badges
gti6 inlet manifold badges | 306 rear boot badges (p2/p3)
winner of Extraction of toys from prams with outstanding vigour award 2009 [source: gti6 owners club]
Posted 5th May 2010 at 18:27
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welshpug!

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Location: Bigend, Wales.

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Post #20
that be the 15 pin "double relay" feeds power to the engine management system as a whoile, i.e pretty much every component, they are a tad dear at about £35.

in rikky's case he may have the earlier type of plug on his loom with a large wire clip and usually a brown relay/plug, the relay is identical internally to the later one but has different locating lugs to the type more commonly used that has a sliding red clip and small R-clip retainer.

I would still get that plug out though, probably way past needing replacement (with a £10 set of NGK's from local motorfactor) if they are stuck.

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Posted 5th May 2010 at 18:54
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ryangti6

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Post #21
black 6 wrote:
Any tips on getting the really tight plug out without breaking it.


Do them with the engine at full running temp, if it is still reluctant to come out then you could try some penetrating oil down the hole, leave it soak for 20 mins and see if that helps.

Good luck

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Ryan
Posted 5th May 2010 at 20:26
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