Post #26
you are very much mistaken!!________________________________________
need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets.
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 welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Bring on the Trumpets. |
 Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 20:35
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dented_vts
Regular  Location: london Registered: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 440 Status: Offline |
Post #27
About which bit? i'm hear to learn as for a hobby i want to try and get my tired old car to run properly.You think an engine after 250k miles will make the same power it did after 10k? I cant understand how that can be so that would presume nothing has worn. |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 20:41
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makaveli144
Newbie Location: Burton Registered: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 31 Status: Offline |
Post #28
You are meant to run on a rolling road in the gear its calibrated to.usually forth.thats why you would have got different figures each time aswell as other factors. |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 20:57
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adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #29
Bloody hell theres a load of mis-information on this thread!You need to do the following to get good n/a power. 1. New pistons or pocket the old ones 2. Decent cams, or decent inlet at least 3. Don't touch the head unless you want a huge amount of power. 4. Throttle bodies. 5. Matched exhaust and manifold. Or more cheaply fit a V6 from a D8 406, but thats only 200BHp and 200lbft with few tuning options. Thats why the low boost superchargers are proving popular. ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 21:00
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #30
dented_vts wrote: AI cant understand how that can be so that would presume nothing has worn. no, that is NOT assuming that nothing has worn, simply that despite the wear it does still produce the power as intended. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 21:01
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #31
Gear doesn't matter on a rolling road really, try to get as close to 1:1 as possible. RRs really aren't very good most of the time and should be used as a diagnostic tool only. My old engine made the same compression at 133k as at 70k. Then didn't on 2 cylinders at 135k when the gasket blew  Wheel figure was about 142 iirc, with 156lbft of torque on a standard engine. Had slightly advanced cams, but they were standard. ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 21:13
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #32
Oh and you can increase the cc's as well with different crank/rod/pistons. Forgot to put it on the list.________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 21:04
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SteviePut
Seasoned Pro  Location: Down south Registered: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 13,637 Status: Offline |
Post #33
Just to add my 2 pennies worth. I was there when Miles ran his 250k miler. His wasn't the only standard car there and none of the other standard cars made any where near standard quote power. Also, as I understand things, in theory an engine has, to a point, less internal friction with the more miles it has done. Therefore surely there will be less energy being converted into heat, through friction, and therefore more power transmited to the crank??  ________________________________________ My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it? |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 22:42
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jazz
Junior User  Location: Nairobi Registered: 22 May 2007 Posts: 56 Status: Offline |
Post #34
i have got kent pt81's fitted by rich,k&n induction kit and full stainless steel cat back exhaust those the only mods done to me 6,mapped by wayne 199.8bhp & 168lb.ft,no valves hitting pistons so can say the pt81's are about the safest to go for without any extra work.hope this helps. ________________________________________ GTI6 - 207.6bhp, 183.4lb/ft and the only one in kenya. |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:01
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #35
jazz wrote: i have got kent pt81's fitted by rich,k&n induction kit and full stainless steel cat back exhaust those the only mods done to me 6,mapped by wayne 199.8bhp & 168lb.ft,no valves hitting pistons so can say the pt81's are about the safest to go for without any extra work.hope this helps. They aren't though if you read the other thread. If the head has been skimmed without you realising then its curtains. They are bloody close  Whats your rev limit? ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:06
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey  Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #36
SteviePut wrote: Just to add my 2 pennies worth. I was there when Miles ran his 250k miler. His wasn't the only standard car there and none of the other standard cars made any where near standard quote power. Also, as I understand things, in theory an engine has, to a point, less internal friction with the more miles it has done. Therefore surely there will be less energy being converted into heat, through friction, and therefore more power transmited to the crank?? Not necessarily, you are correct that engines tend to loosen with time and get faster, however this is only true up to a point as rings wear radially the end gap widens increasing 'blow by' and subsequent loss of compression/power, on a well cared for engine with regular oil changes this happens very slowly so it's very feasible for a high miler to make standard power. As for the newer cars making less, you have to allow for the fact it's a mass produced engine, there will be variations in tolerances when it was produced, variables such as wear/missed maintenance and faults to contend with as well. Really rolling roads should be looked at as a good place to set your car up, and a handy diagnostic tool but as said if you want concrete facts a dyno cell has got to be the best bet. But who is going to unbolt their engine just to get a power figure, however accurate? ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:11
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jazz
Junior User Location: Nairobi Registered: 22 May 2007 Posts: 56 Status: Offline |
Post #37
hey adam my rev limiter is now at 7900,but i dont need to shift at that rev,the peak power is at 6800...well i guess its only safe if your engine is checked for clearence or when the engine is turned manually to check if there is any valve piston touching and was told mine werent________________________________________ GTI6 - 207.6bhp, 183.4lb/ft and the only one in kenya. |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:24
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #38
jazz wrote: hey adam my rev limiter is now at 7900,but i dont need to shift at that rev,the peak power is at 6800...well i guess its only safe if your engine is checked for clearence or when the engine is turned manually to check if there is any valve piston touching and was told mine werent Wtihout physically checking how much clearance you have, you could (and probably do) have next to no clearance, at high rpm, rods can stretch and valves can loose contact with the followers (expecially if you are still on standard valve springs) this becomes even more likely if you raise raise the rev limiter without allowing for this. As yours is effectively raised by 10% you could be skating on very thin ice, without verniers on you will struggle to accurately set up your timing and if it does'nt go back exactly the same at your next cambelt change you could be in for some serious disappointment. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:31
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SteviePut
Seasoned Pro Location: Down south Registered: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 13,637 Status: Offline |
Post #39
daveyboy wrote: SteviePut wrote: Just to add my 2 pennies worth. I was there when Miles ran his 250k miler. His wasn't the only standard car there and none of the other standard cars made any where near standard quote power. Also, as I understand things, in theory an engine has, to a point, less internal friction with the more miles it has done. Therefore surely there will be less energy being converted into heat, through friction, and therefore more power transmited to the crank?? Not necessarily, you are correct that engines tend to loosen with time and get faster, however this is only true up to a point as rings wear radially the end gap widens increasing 'blow by' and subsequent loss of compression/power, on a well cared for engine with regular oil changes this happens very slowly so it's very feasible for a high miler to make standard power. As for the newer cars making less, you have to allow for the fact it's a mass produced engine, there will be variations in tolerances when it was produced, variables such as wear/missed maintenance and faults to contend with as well. Really rolling roads should be looked at as a good place to set your car up, and a handy diagnostic tool but as said if you want concrete facts a dyno cell has got to be the best bet. But who is going to unbolt their engine just to get a power figure, however accurate? Is it feasible for an engine to loose a little compression through "blow by" (as you quite rightly say) but that loss be offset (and some) by the decreased internal friction? ________________________________________ My old man wrote me a letter from prison once. It said if you don't want to end up in here, stay away from crime, women and drugs. Trouble is, that don't leave you much else to do, does it? |
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Posted 25th Feb 2010 at 23:38
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jazz
Junior User Location: Nairobi Registered: 22 May 2007 Posts: 56 Status: Offline |
Post #40
you are right daveyboy so until next cambelt change i have to rely on rich's work and word,as for the timing it was set by wayne it is running perfect for now so cant say much just though i'd give me opinion cheers for the info though________________________________________ GTI6 - 207.6bhp, 183.4lb/ft and the only one in kenya. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 00:04
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darkgti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Bracknell Registered: 07 Jun 2008 Posts: 1,361 Status: Offline |
Post #41
dented_vts wrote: About which bit? i'm hear to learn as for a hobby i want to try and get my tired old car to run properly. You think an engine after 250k miles will make the same power it did after 10k? I cant understand how that can be so that would presume nothing has worn. Interesting thread! I thought it was the other way round - that new engines struggled to create thier full power until they were run in. Some engines arent considered run in until well after 10k! ________________________________________ Team Peugeot Sport 308 Gti�Black T'99 Gti - may she rest in peace - written off in a shunt on the A329m |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 00:37
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gti-dan
Regular  Location: Yorkshire Registered: 03 Jan 2010 Posts: 461 Status: Offline |
Post #42
just found this thread after looking for info on cams on google. I had asked a question about cams before but was just pointed in the direction of the search facility - unfortunately every thread i found seemed to either do the same or not give any sort of answer - a bit like this one. Can somebody just give some advice on the various cams - which ARE suitable?!?! Standard head and pistons, good gains, no terrible idle, no valve to piston disasters?!?!One other thing somebody mentioned increasing cc's - has this been done much. I know on scoobies stroker kits are commonly used but not really heard it mentioned on here for 6's. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:00
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dented_vts
Regular Location: london Registered: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 440 Status: Offline |
Post #43
i think most modern engines ship from the factory with regular oil now are are effectively run in? I have not heard of manufacturers recommending running in for some years. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:05
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #44
gti-dan wrote: just found this thread after looking for info on cams on google. I had asked a question about cams before but was just pointed in the direction of the search facility - unfortunately every thread i found seemed to either do the same or not give any sort of answer - a bit like this one. Can somebody just give some advice on the various cams - which ARE suitable?!?! Standard head and pistons, good gains, no terrible idle, no valve to piston disasters?!?! One other thing somebody mentioned increasing cc's - has this been done much. I know on scoobies stroker kits are commonly used but not really heard it mentioned on here for 6's. Dan check this thread, I had a look at the spec of the cams commonly used and the limits if you find another cam not looked at. Max lift @ TDC on std pistons on pretty much anything but the mildest inlet cam upgrades you will need a remap to retain a decent idle and to not run lean at mid to higher revs. on this forum in the 306 its not particularly common for oversized engines, but there are a few more over on the 205gtidrivers forum, most are Mi16's but the bottom end is nearest dammit the same. the few over on the 205 gtidrivers forum are into the mid 200's on effectively standard heads, DrSarty's 205 2.2 is around the 185 lbft mark and 240 bhp, stock mi16 exhaust cam, PeterT inlet cam, a Sandy brown/Colin satchell inlet manifold and IIRC a Maniflow exhaust. 88mm crank from a 1.9 XU engine is common and will take a standard bore engine to 2040cc IIRC, then you have overbores, 87, 87.5 and 88mm. further than that there's the 2.1 TD 92mm stroke crank, that'll take you closer to 2.2. get the crank offset ground and you can take them up a bit more. the further you go the more you need to spend, basically custom pistons and rods to suit. loads you can do, but also potentially loads of money ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:18
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clen666
Seasoned Pro  Location: Co. Durham Registered: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 2,401 Status: Offline |
Post #45
gti-dan wrote: One other thing somebody mentioned increasing cc's - has this been done much. I know on scoobies stroker kits are commonly used but not really heard it mentioned on here for 6's. An 88mm crank from a 1.9Dturbo will increase the stroke. Would need to change pistons and rods I think, S16 ones will work IIRC. I'm sure someone will correct me if wrong though. Could also increase the bore and fit larger pistons, if doing this you could get deeper pockets to fit wilder cams edit: see post above  ________________________________________ Team 'unintentional rat look' |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:20
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gti-dan
Regular Location: Yorkshire Registered: 03 Jan 2010 Posts: 461 Status: Offline |
Post #46
clen666 wrote: deeper pockets probably being the operative phrase |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:31
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mxcrazy
Regular Location: hastings Registered: 22 Jun 2009 Posts: 456 Status: Offline |
Post #47
Im building an 88mm x 88mm 2139cc engine for my 6, colin satchell/sandy brown gsxr body set up, newman cams, looking into exhaust manifolds at the moment, emerald management, looking for 220+ bhp and as close to 200 ft lb torque as i can. rev limit will be around 7500 to keep it sane. Im not searching for massive BHP's, but good torque and power spread.It will be running a stock head with the valves un-shrouded for better low lift flow, matched manifolds, 3 angles valve seats (they are as stock but can be made a little better) and just a general clean up. For what you will spend on a set of 'safe' cams there is no point, for them to work properly you need a re-map. If you want a nice gain get a peter taylor inlet cam re-grind, its cheap and works well, can use stock map too it seems. If you are going to spend the money on a set of cams, get your pistons pocketed, or replaced, and run something a bit 'wilder' i dont mean wild, just something worth while doing if you are going to have to have it re-mapped anyway. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:35
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #48
gti-dan wrote: clen666 wrote: deeper pockets probably being the operative phrase Not particularly, easily under ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:38
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,839 Status: Offline |
Post #49
under ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:50
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daveyboy
aka Jim Davey Location: Southampton Registered: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 8,648 Status: Offline |
Post #50
jazz wrote: you are right daveyboy so until next cambelt change i have to rely on rich's work and word,as for the timing it was set by wayne it is running perfect for now so cant say much just though i'd give me opinion cheers for the info though Up until fairly recently almoset everyone thought PT81s were a 'safe fit' on our engines, unfortunately several people have fallen foul of over skimmed or badly timed heads so unless you know for certain the history, double check evrything. ________________________________________ R H Davey Welding Supplies. I sell new and used welding equipment in the Hampshire area. I take on welding jobs in the evenings, ally casting repairs are one of my specialities but I can weld pretty much anything. PM me with your requirements.Some of my services: (See my for sale threads) Engine mount/chassis repair Solid Beam Mounts BACK IN PRODUCTION Harness bars |
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Posted 26th Feb 2010 at 01:51
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