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displaying posts 1 to 25 of 39
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| Author | Subject: Cam Advance |
 adam b
Seasoned Pro  Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #1
When my engine came out we finally had a look at the amount the cams have been advanced.Inlet Cam  Exhaust Cam  Please note that the photos might not be 100% dead on at 90 degrees so this is just to give you an idea. I guess they can be measured - will speak to welshpug/meirion about it ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
 Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 01:22
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro  Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #2
It would be really handy if you could measure how much lift your getting at tdc. I'm looking at advancing my inlet cam a bit while its in the engine stand. I measured the standard timing on the inlet to be 0.38mm of lift a tdc, it would be nice to have an advanced figure to compare it to. Al________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 01:35
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #3
You can advance both, not just the inlet. I'll try to figure it out________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 01:43
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic  Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #4
I've got a template to stick onto the crank pulley that tells you what position its in, should be able to figure it out from that to get the number of degrees it's been altered, as well as where TDC is to get a measurement, not sure what standard lift @ TDC was.Looking at how much space there is left in the slot (can't see it in those pictures) its a fair amount. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 01:48
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #5
Have another look next time you're over...________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 02:00
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monty-69
Senior User  Location: Colne Registered: 02 Jul 2006 Posts: 790 Status: Offline |
Post #6
Adam did you you manage to get the car on the rollers with normal and advanced timing? Does it cause the power to tail off faster after 6k? |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 02:08
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #7
adam b wrote: You can advance both, not just the inlet. I'll try to figure it out I was under the impression that leaving the exhaust cam more retarded would keep the the power band higher up the rev range? I believe your runs out of puff before 6k adam? ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 02:11
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toddy
Newbie Location: Sheffield Registered: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline |
Post #8
Welshpug are you not able to measure lift @tdc with a dti?, would be a great help.As an educated guess I expect lift @tdc for both to be around 1.35mm, assuming if/when it is measured, that mid-point of tdc is used. |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 03:08
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #9
I should be able to yes, just need to find some plate or angle to bolt my DTI to________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 03:11
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ryangti6
Seasoned Pro  Location: Pontypool Registered: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 1,839 Status: Offline |
Post #10
I should have taken a picture of my old engine before it got stripped, my inlet cam had definitly been advanced though. Interestingly my car seemed to perform the opposite to Adams though, the power was higher up in the revs on mine and seemed to have more peak Bhp but less torque. ________________________________________ Ryan |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 06:07
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #11
allanallen wrote: adam b wrote: You can advance both, not just the inlet. I'll try to figure it out I was under the impression that leaving the exhaust cam more retarded would keep the the power band higher up the rev range? I believe your runs out of puff before 6k adam? Not at all - max power was at 6300rpm, max torque a bit lower down. It lost its cam 'kick' at 4k, just pulled straight through. I would change at 7k, but it didn't feel like it was losing power at that point. I didn't manage to get it RR'd before as I bought it 67k without a cambelt change so it was a priority. The advancing was done at that point. Had it on a few rollers which all saw the same torque figure of 154lbft and varying power figures from 170 to 179. It wasn't a slow engine (well until its last trip out lol). ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 7th Jan 2010 at 14:56
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #12
toddy wrote: As an educated guess I expect lift @tdc for both to be around 1.35mm, Would advancing the exhaust cam not give less lift at TDC? ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 04:26
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toddy
Newbie Location: Sheffield Registered: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline |
Post #13
allanallen wrote: toddy wrote: As an educated guess I expect lift @tdc for both to be around 1.35mm, Would advancing the exhaust cam not give less lift at TDC? Yeah, you need to retard the exhaust cam to increase lift @ tdc. |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 04:43
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #14
toddy wrote: allanallen wrote: toddy wrote: As an educated guess I expect lift @tdc for both to be around 1.35mm, Would advancing the exhaust cam not give less lift at TDC? Yeah, you need to retard the exhaust cam to increase lift @ tdc. Wasn't being anal, just trying to get it straight in my head  So in adams settings the exhaust valve is probably closed at TDC ie no lift at TDC ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 04:58
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toddy
Newbie Location: Sheffield Registered: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline |
Post #15
allanallen wrote: toddy wrote: allanallen wrote: toddy wrote: As an educated guess I expect lift @tdc for both to be around 1.35mm, Would advancing the exhaust cam not give less lift at TDC? Yeah, you need to retard the exhaust cam to increase lift @ tdc. Wasn't being anal, just trying to get it straight in my head So in adams settings the exhaust valve is probably closed at TDC ie no lift at TDC I wouldn't like to guess by the pictures of Adams engine, as imo belt tension could alter the position of the tabs & Lift @ tdc this is why there is a big variation in engine outputs, purely my opinion. The exhaust cam tab could have been closer to the pulley and they then have retarded it. Adams has been set by Gwynne speed, who set them to Group N settings. Catcams group N cams lift were ex 1.4mm, inlet 1.35mm. Not saying that Gwynne speed use these settings but would like Welshpug to measure just to settle my own curiousity! Disclaimer: Anyone who uses these settings and spanks their engine, does so at their own risk  |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 05:16
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #16
Thats interesting about the catcams setting, I thought it was the norm to have quite a bit less lift on the exhaust than the inlet? Not sure i'd be happy about running 1.4mm on standard pistons mind. Just for the record I measured mine tonight at the standard pinned settings, I have 0.38mm inlet and 0.76mm exhaust. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 05:37
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adam b
Seasoned Pro Location: The Nam Registered: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 12,828 Status: Offline |
Post #17
Andy can't remember exactly what he set them to as i've asked him a few times (it was nearly 4 years ago). He used to run a few 306 GTi6 Group N cars so it wouldn't surprise me that this was a regular setting. By the time I saw him he only had his Group A car left and that ran a completely different setup.We'll measure them and let you know. I ran that engine on mostly normal unleaded for 65k miles before the head gasket went so I don't think as a modification it wil do that much damage if setup correctly. Does loads more than a filter + exhaust  ________________________________________ Nothing to see here |
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Posted 8th Jan 2010 at 14:21
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toddy
Newbie Location: Sheffield Registered: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 29 Status: Offline |
Post #18
allanallen wrote: Thats interesting about the catcams setting, I thought it was the norm to have quite a bit less lift on the exhaust than the inlet? Yeah I agree some run equal but most run advanced like you say. Presently getting my arse in gear to rebuild mine, will put it on the RR where you took your SC MI and let you know the outcome. |
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Posted 9th Jan 2010 at 04:06
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #19
Had a look today, both cams advanced the same amount to nearly 11 degrees! not quite fully advanced in the slot, but not far off.Tried to get a Lift @ TDC figure and got 1.40mm, but I forgot to check whether the bottom pulley had slipped or not  can check that next time I'm over and confirm.________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 10th Jan 2010 at 02:39
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allanallen
Seasoned Pro Location: Buxton Registered: 01 May 2007 Posts: 1,399 Status: Offline |
Post #20
welshpug! wrote: Had a look today, both cams advanced the same amount to nearly 11 degrees! not quite fully advanced in the slot, but not far off. Tried to get a Lift @ TDC figure and got 1.40mm, but I forgot to check whether the bottom pulley had slipped or not can check that next time I'm over and confirm.1.4 sounds a bit risky! Obviously worked in adams case though. Is it possible you could measure the exhaust lift aswell mei? It must be getting towards 0 lift at TDC with that much advance? Surely it doesn't matter if the pullies slipped as your checking the lift against the crank/piston position. ________________________________________ www.bridgecraftmotorsport.co.uk |
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Posted 10th Jan 2010 at 02:54
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welshpug!
Capt Pedantic Location: Bigend, Wales. Registered: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 25,838 Status: Offline |
Post #21
I was using the pulley as a reference point for Crank/piston position @ TDC, I printed a degree wheel with the pin hole marked on it, just forgot to check the angle from the pinned hole to the woodruff slot Didn't have anything really to stick down the plughole to show TDC  bit late to check on Adam's engine now as its in Pieces, but I will check on my own one as I have to sort my headgasket too This combination has certainly worked in this case, even with heavy bore wear it produced the goods. ________________________________________ need a part number? get on here - http://public.servicebox.peugeot.comBring on the Trumpets. |
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Posted 10th Jan 2010 at 03:08
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atterz
Seasoned Pro  Location: Stafford Registered: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 1,134 Status: Offline |
Post #22
Sorry to drag this thread up from the past but after a good read im pretty interested in this, doesnt sound like a bad way to make some more low down torque with minimal sacrifice! What actually happened to Adams old engine?________________________________________ owain wrote: A GTI-6 with a good dashboard and the seats down can outsprint an E46 M3 in July. |
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Posted 17th Jan 2012 at 18:40
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dan_s16
Seasoned Pro  Location: Cheltenham Registered: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,583 Status: Offline |
Post #23
IIRC the head gasket failed between two cylinders and caused some damage to the cylinder head in the process________________________________________ When I've got time I forget what I wanted to do, and when I remember what I wanted to do, I have no time! |
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Posted 17th Jan 2012 at 21:14
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stan_306gti6
Forum Admin Location: Kent Registered: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 21,768 Status: Offline |
Post #24
Yes, that's correct, failed in a big way and wore a groove in the head.________________________________________ "Supercharged - 454.1bhp/317.5lb/ft"Peugeot 306 GTi-6 2000 (X), Moonstone  |
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Posted 17th Jan 2012 at 21:57
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atterz
Seasoned Pro Location: Stafford Registered: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 1,134 Status: Offline |
Post #25
Ouch, is that a case of ignoring the symptoms when its clearly gone? I did the same with my DT and it cracked the head.________________________________________ owain wrote: A GTI-6 with a good dashboard and the seats down can outsprint an E46 M3 in July. |
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Posted 17th Jan 2012 at 22:09
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